Nanami Jinii
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Art or science? Are games becoming too 3D
Author
I realize that this is yet another post by the cross forum disrespected and generally disliked Fantasy Edge, but I need to have this discussion since it has been nagging at me for the longest time.
Are 3D games really good games?
I can admit that the advent of 3D in the gaming world has given rise to some of the more prominent feilds and Genre''s of the art. The shoot''em''up would never have been invented and thus millions of dollers probably wouldnt have gone into the industry. Although, do games like these teach the love of violence or love of art? I was playing Unreal Tournament a few nights ago tripping over the flashy lights and cool 3D effects(oh yeah, just a little too much of the .....).
I came to the realization that this game wassnt really all that fun, I was more into it because I was told it was pretty cool. First of all, Im a RPG player so the FPS really didnt appeal to me. But I tend to give any type of game a few chances to prove itself a good one. Games like Final Fantasy 7 and Unreal certainly have a great deal of potential and are really good games, but should we go as far as to call them art? Did you ever cry in unreal? Probably not, but when Aeris died you might have.
Recently, Squaresoft released a game by the name Legend Of Mana. This game was the North american sequal to Seiken Densutsu 2( Secret of mana)since Seiken Densetsu 3 never shipped over sea''s. Legend of mana did not boast any spiffy 3d graphics or rendered cutscenes. The whole game from start to finish was hand drawn. THis is a rareity these days and even more so in the console market.
THe reason this game struck me as one of my top ten is because it maintained a high level in the gameplay. You could play it over and over and still not get everything. The fact that it was hand drawn really boosted the artistic apeal of the overall game.
This post was inspired by a reply to another persons a while back about the playstation being ancient and worthless. The way I see it, Graphics aside, the super nes has the ability to produce the same level of games. given they are 2d and in a lower color depth but that wasnt important at that time.
Does anyone else have an opinion? I am really battleing this hard i know, but hey. Im not saying 3d is bad but can you really say you derive feeling through 3D? does that add more than just coolness?
Oh and I realize I must seem quite the crack victim but hey, no reply''s from people who are just going to fuck me around. I dont have time to read that stuff.
Only people with an interest please
"Why does my life have to be so hard in every world?"
Nanami Jinii
Nanami Jinii
3D doesn''t automatically make a game bad if used correctly. FF7 is 3D, remember? And it doesn''t really make use of the 3rd dimension.
Derive feeling through 3D? I think I''ve felt real emotions towards the characters in just two games: FF7 and Deus Ex. Both 3D. It''s really all about the story (though Deus Ex''s story is cliched) and immersion.
-Jussi
quote: Does anyone else have an opinion? I am really battleing this hard i know, but hey. Im not saying 3d is bad but can you really say you derive feeling through 3D? does that add more than just coolness?
Derive feeling through 3D? I think I''ve felt real emotions towards the characters in just two games: FF7 and Deus Ex. Both 3D. It''s really all about the story (though Deus Ex''s story is cliched) and immersion.
-Jussi
Author
I would agree with the feeling of character in FF7. when Aeris died, It kind of sucked. Not really into the PC genre so i wouldnt know anyhitng about Dues Ex. I also found chrono cross of particular interest but the character development sucked. its a good thing that the rest of the story was strong but it was fairly hard to follow.
"Why does my life have to be so hard in every world?"
Nanami Jinii
"Why does my life have to be so hard in every world?"
Nanami Jinii
3d will rule the gaming industry for the time being, but it will lose to traditional 2d art. There will be too much 3d games out in the market in the future and 2d will be missed. 3d is hard to model but animating it isn''t that tough. While animating 2d cut scenes takes up alot of time especially if you have to animate something highly detailed like Warhammer art. Drawing frame by frame is tough work.
On a side note, Aeris dying was kinda weird. They give you idea of reviving your party with Phoenix Down so how come you can''t revive Aeris? Kinda messes up the whole thing. Also, Cloud just stood there and talk to Sephiroth, if that was me I would just be overcomed with anger and grief and rush to attack Sephiroth head on instead of just standing there right after Sephiroth just killed her. That''s my opinion at least and sorry for spoiling this to everyone who hasn''t gotten this far yet.
On a side note, Aeris dying was kinda weird. They give you idea of reviving your party with Phoenix Down so how come you can''t revive Aeris? Kinda messes up the whole thing. Also, Cloud just stood there and talk to Sephiroth, if that was me I would just be overcomed with anger and grief and rush to attack Sephiroth head on instead of just standing there right after Sephiroth just killed her. That''s my opinion at least and sorry for spoiling this to everyone who hasn''t gotten this far yet.
Author
well here is my problem. if the one that you loved died by the hand of someone who was once your idle, im thinking that you would be pretty traumatized..
"Why does my life have to be so hard in every world?"
Nanami Jinii
"Why does my life have to be so hard in every world?"
Nanami Jinii
AOE/AOK is 2d and the graphics do their job really well. 3D is over used sometimes - being used just as a gimic. I find it ironic that some reviewers are peeved over a game that doesn''t use 3D graphics but the game itself is 2d oriented and 3d wouldn''t add anything to the game. Of course, this is the same guy who complained a month before about the over use of 3D in games that are just being gimicky.
It all boils down to whether 3D adds anything to the game play or not. Checkers does not need to be a 3D game - 3D doesn''t add anything to the game.
It all boils down to whether 3D adds anything to the game play or not. Checkers does not need to be a 3D game - 3D doesn''t add anything to the game.
okay, uh, i never played ff7, but about this guy dying, uh, does this involve any interactivity in this part of a game or is it a cut scene? if it''s a cut scene, then uh, it''s not interactive, then, it''s not part of the game. the part that you were emotionally touched by was not interactive. i call that an animation. anyway, if i''m wrong, then i''m wrong. what i''m saying is, ff7 cannot be judged as a cool game by its cut scenes. however, i have to undoubtedly agree that ff7 is a good game (even though i''ve never played it.)
a2k
a2k
Author
.... who said anything about that? if you played the game, you know that you have to fight genova after that and its to aeris''s theme. that was a little nearvracking because i liked aeris (tifa is more powerful but not as good a CHARACTER)
yeah, for the time, the cutscenes were great but the game itsleft did it for me, the pretty cutscenes really werent nessisary and as i see it games that still dont have any are really good.
"Why does my life have to be so hard in every world?"
Nanami Jinii;El-hazard
yeah, for the time, the cutscenes were great but the game itsleft did it for me, the pretty cutscenes really werent nessisary and as i see it games that still dont have any are really good.
"Why does my life have to be so hard in every world?"
Nanami Jinii;El-hazard
This is the part of FMV disscussion that really upsets me, and I hear it from hyper 2d final fantasy purists all the time. The cutscenes in Final Fantasy games are NOTHING NEW. The only difference is that they have become rendered video, where as before they were little events that were handled by the normal game engine, where the little 16x32 pixeled characters moved around a la the computer and performed movements. Events like the taking of the crystal from the beginning of FF4, or any of the multitude of seqences from FF6 (intro, meeting a new character, etc) The only difference is that they have now become a video, which in my mind is more immersive. Of course some events are still handled in the game engine, but the characters aren''t pixels anymore.
JD
JD
I think that the Old 2d games with handdrawn artwork, still look fantastic. Not in terms of resolution, in fact they may even be relatively blocky, but in terms of character/place drawing. Check out Ultima: Martian Dreams intro scene, or Secret of Monkey Island, or Day of the Tentacle. These all have cool cutscenes/ (or gameplay graphics), which will probably still endure better than most 3d games.
3d games provide better immersion for the player, think of the classic FP-RPG game Ultima Underworld. (or even the FPS Doom).
Aside from immersion / 3d navigation ability though, what does 3d provide that cannot be done better in 2d. (Line of Sight can be done with realtime shadows - see Nox.)
3d games provide better immersion for the player, think of the classic FP-RPG game Ultima Underworld. (or even the FPS Doom).
Aside from immersion / 3d navigation ability though, what does 3d provide that cannot be done better in 2d. (Line of Sight can be done with realtime shadows - see Nox.)
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