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What I think about neural nets now to do with games

rouncer · 2014-03-01T18:49:29

Youve seen backprop defeat people with their own tactics. done. Youve seen creatures learning how to walk, even like a person. done. both cool things, but what else can you do? TRIPPY NET GAMES what people dont realize, is nets can control a video screen too, and thats what i never saw, i did never know. maybe because they require the horsepower only a modern video card can give you... but back in the old days, you could have done it on a 16x16 binary screen, instead... and that has possibly some joy attached. so basicly, you can record a game with them, seems kinda pointless... cause why didnt you just play the game? and its more pointless when i tell you theres only a finite amount of different screens you can store... as if you simply recorded it with a screen recorder and each screen is a state... the naive implementation is a single cell per frame but ill explain later how you can increase your state size theoretically. about all you got over a screen record, is a method of compression, and screen matching powers... but this is the fun bit about it. but now what can you do? a) you can control the game inside the record, by matching screens to the fresh controls, so you can play it out of the record. so thats the beginning. b) it can be ai... the computer can pretend hes you if he learns off your play, and he biases the screen to be the closest matched state, and comes up with your controls. c) you can even hack the screen, and itll bring up the most similar screen in the record, so you can hand around a little man, and maybe a bird, and then itll start playing where you plotted it in. d) noise can be introduced to some parts of the input to sway the game randomly around the place, and make it more exciting. e) you can search for different areas of the game by giving it labels, in a special label area it learnt whilst it was recording f) with a bigger network with decent enough res and brightness you can teach it real video, and then if you label the frames with controls and states, youll be able to play a game that looks real. INCREASING STATE SIZE well, the first thing you can do, is make your cell count a 4096x4096 texture, and thatll boost you up to 16 million frames right then and there. itll take you ages to fill that. To reduce synapses you can introducea a small hierarchy (making it a deep net) thatll group the screen more gradually, then if there were 20 active cells in the second to last region, the whole states are now only 20 synapses each, for example. theres a heaps more complex way to do it, and its by using a distributed representation to restore whole states. its confusing, because the cells have to work as a team to some level of confidence produce the parts that make a whole image, instead of garbage, which is what youd get otherwise. But then you could have possibly a billion states, and youd never ever fill it! And not to forget, if you store animations in your cells, they have to predict the animation to get them to activate straight away when you need them, then youll naturally develop alot more states also. This will have to be used in combination with the distributed representations, and its very tricky, getting it right. CONCLUSION the sad thing is, its not intelligence, and it must be 100% supervised everything it "knows" cause it has to record it. youll have to show it everything explicitly, so even if you had the states, making the game that looked real would be impossible cause there would never be enough distinct video, for it to fill it states up much at all. The "real sim" would be a robotics venture, where you recorded the steering wheel with a camera on the bonnet, and they would drive and drive and drive with the video autolabelled, but it would still take god knows how many years to finish an explicit state set which could actually be interactive... if the net was made professionally, distributed and predictive they probably never even hit capacity.

Artificial Intelligence Programming

Started by rouncer February 18, 2014 11:19 PM

8 comments, last by FLeBlanc 10 years, 4 months ago

FLeBlanc

3,142

March 01, 2014 06:49 PM

Shouldn't we just ignore rouncer's ideas until he can produce one interesting tech demo? If the guy were simply an idiot, I would have some sympathy for him and I would try to help him with his misconceptions, the way ApochPiQ is doing.

However, every so often he posts things like this:
god, its simple, but its a whole lot of thinking thats not commonplace among programmers.

So not only is he an idiot, he is also an asshole with a superiority complex. I am soooo done with this guy.

Easy there, killer. I'll admit he's said some blunt things, but they could as easily come from, say, not being a native speaker. But don't write him off completely; he has produced some interesting things in the past (eg, http://www.gamedev.net/topic/644452-distance-field-landscape-demo-with-attachment/ ) and he is at least working and developing ( http://www.gamedev.net/topic/652697-neural-network-motion-video/ ), rather than just talking out his ass.

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What I think about neural nets now to do with games

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