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Abusing -1 rep

Started by
30 comments, last by jbadams 6 years, 10 months ago
29 minutes ago, MarcusAseth said:

Ah, by the way, what are this pixels and how you get more?! I haven't figured out yet :D  

 

Hello to all my stalkers.

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We'll implement some controls on when members can upvote.

Admin for GameDev.net.

2 hours ago, khawk said:

We'll implement some controls on when members can upvote.

First I will clear some things out of the way.  Facts:: (1). I'm a nobody on this forum, so my opinion doesn't mean anything anyway. But nonetheless I will state it.  (2). These days rep means very little to me and I'm not obsessed with it 

Having pulled that out of the way...

The way reputation voting is going these days confuses me a lot. Some months ago, someone  said people vote people and I wrote strongly against that, stating that was not true currently (at least not to my observations at that time)

As it turns out, (maybe encouraged by the looks of the new upgrade, I don't know), but the guy was right after all!!!

forum voting system is now really broken... more broken than before. People now blatantly vote people. There is some guy (won't mention names)... who gets upvoted always, no matter what crap, he writes. Long standing member and mods too get upvoted relatively more easily compared to what they post (caution here due to bias in my judgement of what should be voted up or down), but take a look at this for instance::
In a serious thread where I also posted, someone posted recently "masturbate furiously". He didn't even get one single downvote, (as of this date of my posting). If I had said the same I would probably have had -20 by now. Actually he briefly got a downvote but it was quickly reversed, so I thought "meh, what's the use"
Before the upgrade, voting was like "is this post useful to the original poster's question?".  And this requires serious judgement. But now voting is "do you like it?" Synonyms "is it cute?", "do I see you as cool?".  And these are highly subjective and non-serious criteria. Apparently a lot of people saw "masturbate furiously" as COOL 

Like I said, though my opinion matters very little here, but i have to say that I prefer the previous voting system a thousand time more than the current one

One point per vote seem so insignificantly small that mostly its like "what's the point of voting anyway". And as previously mentioned even when voting does happen, it comes across as a highly subjective voting system

 

can't help being grumpy...

Just need to let some steam out, so my head doesn't explode...

11 minutes ago, grumpyOldDude said:

As it turns out, (maybe encouraged by the looks of the new upgrade, I don't know), but the guy was right after all!!!

 

I don't think that's fair to say. The particular behavior that occurred in this scenario involved a user systematically and maliciously seeking out every post by another user and downvoting it regardless of context. This is not only (a) not new behavior (it happened on the old version of the site) but also (b) not very common. It's very much an outlying data point and I don't think it says anything concretely one way or another about how real people vote for real.

 

13 minutes ago, grumpyOldDude said:

forum voting system is now really broken... more broken than before. People now blatantly vote people.

What data do you have to verify this? Nothing about the ability to mechanically vote on posts changed except for the layout (the button is in a different, arguably less-visible spot) and the effect (it doesn't contribute to the same point system as other activity does). Before, you could hit an up or down vote button and increase or decrease the reputation of a user accordingly. Now, you can hit an up or down vote button and increase or decrease the reputation of a user accordingly.

I don't see how that's any different.

I'm not saying you're not incidentally correct, but I'm having a hard time believing you have sufficient data to actually back that assertion up.

16 minutes ago, grumpyOldDude said:

In a serious thread where I also posted, someone posted recently "masturbate furiously". He didn't even get one downvote, (at this date of posting). if I had said the same I would probably have had -20 by now. Actually he briefly got a downvote but it was quickly reversed, so I thought "meh, what's the use"

I went and found the thread in question (at least the search worked way better than it used to, so that's something). This thread is in the lounge, where historically you could not vote. I suspect that may be why you didn't see many votes on it. A cursory glance through other threads in the lounge recently shows fewer votes than I usually expect to see overall, although that's certainly not enough data to make any real solid claim.

I do agree that the specific post in question wasn't useful, and it's been hidden.

18 minutes ago, grumpyOldDude said:

Before the upgrade, voting was like "is this post useful to the original poster's question".  And this requires serious judgement. But now voting is it "do you like it" Synonyms "is it cute", "do I see you as cool".  And these are highly subjective and non-serious criteria. Apparently a lot of people saw "masturbate furiously" as COOL 

 

If people saw it as COOL wouldn't they have upvoted it? It was at 0 votes when I hide it.

You do have a good point re: the hover tooltips. They appear to have vanished in the upgrade, potentially reducing guidance about what those up and down arrows mean. Restoring those may be worth looking in to.

20 minutes ago, grumpyOldDude said:

One point per vote seem so insignificantly small that mostly its like "what's the point of voting anyway". And as previously mentioned even when voting does happen, it comes across as a highly subjective voting system

 

My understanding is that the idea was to focus on the votes as a measure of the specific content, not the user and adopting a different score system ("pixels") for other user-aggregate activity. I think it's still too early to see how well that will work, given parts of that goal are still missing and we're still seeing people readjusting to the new normal.

I'm still in the "this whole reputation thing is a distraction anyway" camp.

 

Well that may be true in part due to the fact that there are no formal guidelines of how upvotes are meant to be used, for instance, if a Moderator reply to one of my post speaking to me, I upvote him regardless as a "I appreciate you being active on this forum, mods like this are really needed and appreciated", but I wouldn't automatically upvote a normal user just due to his presence.

Another example is, if someone writes a lot, even if it turns out not being really useful to me after all, I upvote it as a "I appreacite your effort and trying, keep it up ;) "

If rep is meant to be used as quality content control device, then  maybe giving rep should be more "meaningful" than it is right now, for instance, taking again example from dota you have a balance of 3 reports during a week (or something like that) so you won't report willy nilly, you end up giving serious thought and consideration when spending/casting one of your reports, therefore you save those for when it really matters and is REALLY deserved.

If rep is meant for quality control, then users should be given a weekly ammount of upvote to distribute (capped, so you can't have more than a certain ammount or it would invalidate the point of seeying it as a precious thing), and this would lead to people spending more time in deciding on who really deserves their limited ammount of upvote.

Apologize moderators, but if I had limited upvotes I would have to refrain to vote you for presence :D

25 minutes ago, grumpyOldDude said:

forum voting system is now really broken... more broken than before.

How so. It was stated before the upgrade that the old system was failing. Even when people where supposed to up-vote knowledge they still up-voted with any thing they agreed with.

Having one score that people can up-vote and down-vote when they agree or disagree is still very similar to the old way with just a lighter touch to it.

It was how people scored anyway, because if you agreed with the other persons knowledge it was an up-vote. Now people just up-vote more. So it does what it always has, it shows how many on the forum agree with you.

 

The pixels is more like a game score, where doing something that the developer wants you to do gets you score. So if you think of the forum score as having value the pixels is the better measure.

34 minutes ago, grumpyOldDude said:

These days rep means very little to me and I'm not obsessed with it 

That's how it should be, having a lighter score system helps in this.

 

 

If someone has ideas for scoring systems I would like to read about it, I think this topic is a great way for us to think of new scoring systems that even if they don't work in the forum can work in our games.

10 minutes ago, Scouting Ninja said:

 So if you think of the forum score as having value the pixels is the better measure.

then it should be given the bigger Font :D The Font is screaming to me that rep is more important, regardless of logic :D

After all, bigger Font and being on top means people see rep before your pixel, so rep,  in a way, matters more :P

34 minutes ago, Scouting Ninja said:

If someone has ideas for scoring systems I would like to read about it, I think this topic is a great way for us to think of new scoring systems that even if they don't work in the forum can work in our games.

Well I have a simple idea.

When a user casts an upvote, a small non-invasive pop-up appears and the user can choose between 2 choices, justifyng the reason for the upvote:

I like this comment

I find this reply useful

If the first is choosen, then the user getting the upvote get a "green heart" (goes into the "green heart" counter) meaning the user is liked.

For the second, it gets a "green wrench" (goes into the "green wrench" counter) meaning the users can fix stuff around the forum.

So basically, just add more counters and make the distinction clear, leave to us to specify what are we voting for :D

Something like this (image below) but better

4zcFPf2.png

1 hour ago, Scouting Ninja said:

Having one score that people can up-vote and down-vote when they agree or disagree is still very similar to the old way with just a lighter touch to it.

It's actually much different. Before your activity alone had a high percentage impact on your reputation - 3 points for posting a reply vs 1 point for an upvote? Not even close to representative of a reputation. In the new system it's strictly based on others' perception of you, whether that be with appreciation or their perceived value of your contribution.

Soon, this will be more obvious when everyone's rep is reset. A reputation reset was not done at the same time because for various reasons we wanted to limit the amount of change happening at once. For reference, have you seen this?

 

1 hour ago, MarcusAseth said:

Well I have a simple idea.

These aren't bad ideas for the future.

Admin for GameDev.net.

6 minutes ago, khawk said:

have you seen this?

I haven't seen it, thanks for the link. I knew it had to be done, all the old members have huge scores compared to new ones.

It's funny just how much these forums are just like MMO games.

 

Maybe when the rep is reset you should add a text after it like the pixels, so it's clear to every person that it's only reputation and there for related to other peoples whims; and not based on set rules like the pixels.

Honestly I like the idea of both scores. One the people decide the other monitored by a machine, great contrast.

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