ok I guess you could say in theory that 3d and 2d when using the exact same style of graphics 3d takes more. But that never happens. 2d almost always uses sprites, 3d almost always uses models. In fact I''d almost say that using models is part of the definition of 3d. Animated sprites always (perhaps with an exception or two) take more memory. With a model you only need to hold the vertices, the animation, and the textures. With sprites you need every frame. Voxels aren''t sprites either, since you can rotate a voxel object and you can''t rotate a sprite.
If you had 2d using 2d models and animated them that way yes then it would be two thirds of 3d. However most people are unwilling to settle for animated 2d polygons. Sprites just look nicer. You could in a sense do "sprites" by making a model for every frame instead of animating a single model, but again there is no point.
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Upsides and Downsides to 2D and 3D
Excuse MEEE, if a 3D game uses ENOUGH textures to look any good, the textures alone will take a lot more space than any sprites (AND NO, you can''t represent a model with a sprite, and furthermore I don''t think sprites look "prettier). My take on the original post is that the ONLY POINT of 2D with current computers is that it''s easier to understand for the end user, and for many easier to maneuver (and "but I can play Quake just fine" d00dz, don''t go there..).
Although 2D can give you a better view immediately around you, 3D lets you see far into the distance and is almost necessary to create a game where seeing over long distances is necessary.
lntakitopi@aol.com
http://geocities.com/guanajam/
lntakitopi@aol.com
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Letting the player see further in 2D is only a matter of taking distance away from the player and perspective. Many 2D strategy games have really long distances on a single screen, so distance isn''t really a point for either 2D or 3D. Depth, however, is - visualizing distances between objects or height in 2D is hard.
ok look at it this way. You have a 3d model with lots of textures. I don''t know how many you would use, but I think you''d use under 100. An animated unit takes hundreds of sprites to do well, that''s just in a strategy game, RPG probably takes even more. Each frame of animation is basically the same as a texture. So the sprite based thing would take more. Plus you can probably use many of the textures in more than one place, you can''t ever do that with sprites.
Author
To Everyone:
I wasn't looking for a war against me. I was looking for OPINIONATED ANSWERS! Maybe Commander Keen wasn't a good example. True, the Blizzard 2D is awsome. I've played Starcraft and Warcraft. And true, they didn't program the water to be swimmable (or boatable for that matter). And yes, in the Blizzard games there are who fields to put power-ups. However, in my OPINION, 3D games take more effort; hell, I'm working on one right now. Not musicwise by artwise. Making good 2D characters about an hour, wheras making good 3D characters takes DAYS! I have about 40 designs of my hero character right now, and they're STILL not perfect! When I said 2D, I meant side scroller, like Mega Man X4 or Jazz Jackrabbit 2 (new games with awesomelly cool 2D graphics). I don't want people to be insulting me just because of my list. Yes, I agree that DOOM was basically a 2D game. Yes, you could move in and out, but the enemies were just large sprites that changed size as they came toward you. Wheras in a game like Half-Life as the enemies move toward you more detail comes into view. You can look up, down, climb ladders (something I had never seen before), build missile turrets... yes, Half-Life was completely 3D.
I think what we're all getting at here is the fact that 2D games these days include some 3D. It's just the rage! Have any of you played Mega Man 8? There are some levels with swinging hammers that are completely 3D. They actually look smaller as they go back; they don't just change size. Same thing for the 3D Spike Bolls in Jazz Jackrabbit 2. So if you think I'm wrong, JUST SAY SO! Don't insult me
!
Top quality games don't kick ass as well as these.
http://danavision.homestead.com
Prepare to be blown away!
-------------------------
Magic Card
Edited by - Magic Card on 4/23/00 3:08:46 PM
I wasn't looking for a war against me. I was looking for OPINIONATED ANSWERS! Maybe Commander Keen wasn't a good example. True, the Blizzard 2D is awsome. I've played Starcraft and Warcraft. And true, they didn't program the water to be swimmable (or boatable for that matter). And yes, in the Blizzard games there are who fields to put power-ups. However, in my OPINION, 3D games take more effort; hell, I'm working on one right now. Not musicwise by artwise. Making good 2D characters about an hour, wheras making good 3D characters takes DAYS! I have about 40 designs of my hero character right now, and they're STILL not perfect! When I said 2D, I meant side scroller, like Mega Man X4 or Jazz Jackrabbit 2 (new games with awesomelly cool 2D graphics). I don't want people to be insulting me just because of my list. Yes, I agree that DOOM was basically a 2D game. Yes, you could move in and out, but the enemies were just large sprites that changed size as they came toward you. Wheras in a game like Half-Life as the enemies move toward you more detail comes into view. You can look up, down, climb ladders (something I had never seen before), build missile turrets... yes, Half-Life was completely 3D.
I think what we're all getting at here is the fact that 2D games these days include some 3D. It's just the rage! Have any of you played Mega Man 8? There are some levels with swinging hammers that are completely 3D. They actually look smaller as they go back; they don't just change size. Same thing for the 3D Spike Bolls in Jazz Jackrabbit 2. So if you think I'm wrong, JUST SAY SO! Don't insult me
! Top quality games don't kick ass as well as these.
http://danavision.homestead.com
Prepare to be blown away!
-------------------------
Magic Card
Edited by - Magic Card on 4/23/00 3:08:46 PM
A lot of you guys have been saying that 2D is only good for this and that, and soon we will be able to move only to 3D. I don''t see it like that. They are both totally different STYLES, regardless of space they take up, etc. 2D will ALWAYS be good for some things, and 3D the same. Hopefully neither of them will ever fade out of existence.
Alex
Atypical Interactive
www.atypical-interactive.com
Alex
Atypical Interactive
www.atypical-interactive.com
The difference between making 2d characters and 3d characters is that 3d content is front-loaded.
This means that more time is spent setting up the mesh, putting a skeleton in the mesh, linking the skeleton and mesh, texturing the mesh and animating the mesh.
That having been done, making changes is easier in 3d files than 2d files.
Imagine two scenarios:
1 - hand drawn sprites, 8 bit pallete, 300 frames of animation
2 - 3d modeled mesh, 8 bit texture map, 300 frames of animation
You get handed a note from the AD that says you put the eyepatch on the wrong eye and the pauldrons need to be reduced 40%, the overall height increased 10% and the chevron on the tabbard replaced with a dragon, rampant.
Which scenario would you rather be in?
$0.02
This means that more time is spent setting up the mesh, putting a skeleton in the mesh, linking the skeleton and mesh, texturing the mesh and animating the mesh.
That having been done, making changes is easier in 3d files than 2d files.
Imagine two scenarios:
1 - hand drawn sprites, 8 bit pallete, 300 frames of animation
2 - 3d modeled mesh, 8 bit texture map, 300 frames of animation
You get handed a note from the AD that says you put the eyepatch on the wrong eye and the pauldrons need to be reduced 40%, the overall height increased 10% and the chevron on the tabbard replaced with a dragon, rampant.
Which scenario would you rather be in?
$0.02
As a developer, I''d rather be in #1.
"Yo, art department, I need new sprites!"
Hehehe
E:cb woof!
"Yo, art department, I need new sprites!"
Hehehe
E:cb woof!
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