Okay, daddy Jester I know
Now I go to bed with my sweet teddybear

Im 14. Ive known for awhile what kind of money game developers make. I dont care though. Kids my age see a picture of John Carmack and his Ferarri and tend to get the wrong idea about game developers and the money they make(I was like that at first). No one should be joining the industry for the money. Somewhere it said out of every 10 000 kids that wanna become successful in the games industry, only a few handfuls will. So my advice is if ur in it for the love of games, stick with it. If you make a lot of money, be proud. If you dont, be proud.

True

Something that really irritates me about this whole thread is that certain statements and generalizations don''t make sense.

First off, the first rule of business it to make a profit. It companies weren''t making profits from games, they wouldn''t be making them.

Secondly, nobody is going to stay in a job that isn''t paying the bills. If successful game developers weren''t making living wage, they wouldn''t be game developers. This is really just an extension of the first point. Nobody is going to spend $30k on a BS in computer science if they weren''t going to make it back+ from their employment. People work to make money and they don''t take risks without a reasonable guarantee of return.

Understanding these two basic facts about human economic behavior, how can any of you make the excuse that game development just doesn''t pay? It must pay someone, somewhere, or we wouldn''t have Final Fantasy, Twisted Metal, Soul Caliber, and EA sports games, Sid Meier''s Civilization, Alpha Centauri, etc...

The penultimate question here is,

Why should *I* invest the time, effort, and money to attend college, learn game programming and design?

I''m 25. I''ve loved video games of all kinds from the lowly Odyssey 2 which I first played when I was 5 to the latest PC and console games like PS2''s Dark Cloud and Myst III. My biggest dream is that someday, I will be able to take all of my gaming experience and apply it to a work of art that others will be able to experience and enjoy the way I do every night when I dream about it. I would do almost anything to achieve this.

But not if it means that I can''t pay the bills. I don''t see many game developers living out of the trunks of their 1988 Chevy Cavaliers. I want the same chance that every other person has at being successful.

The truth about game development is, however, that "reality bites" to quote a previous post. For every successful game, there are at least 10 that are unsuccessful. For every successful development house, 6 go bankrupt before their first release.

I guess my point is that nobody develops games simply for the love of the art. That may be part of it, but it is not the primary reason. If they''re not making money, they''re not doing it.

That said, the real question here is,

Is there any chance for any of us who love games so much that we want to develop our dreams into reality to achieve that lofty goal and make at least a reasonable profit doing so?

-- Paradigm Shift

>Is there any chance for any of us who love games so much that >we want to develop our dreams into reality to achieve that >lofty goal and make at least a reasonable profit doing so?

Hi,

You made some good points.
You are right for every one succesfully game there are 10 who aren''t profitable. Statics says that most games won''t break even.
I can''t say much about that, because sadly it''s true.

If you check out the industry news you know enough.
Most companies are took over by a larger company or they bankcrupted.

GTi (with different divisions like Wizard works, Humonogous), Atari, Hasbro (millions of lost) are owned by Infogrames Inc.

Expertsoftware and Headgames (both budget publishers)are owned by
Activision Value.

Interplay is recently took over by of Titus. Was in big financial trouble, they fired people to solve the problems for a part.

Eidos was in big financial trouble last years, it look like they
were going to close the doors, but it''s lucky that they are still there. Now with the Lara Croft movie it''s going well. But what you said for every 1 game that makes the company profit, 10 doesn''t make it. They tried to check first for a take over by Microsoft or Infogrames, but they didn''t go on with that.

Sierra online (a couple years ago) closed many offices, studios, because the adventures series didn''t meet the management criteria. A big reorganization was the result of it.
Couple weeks ago, again a big reorganization and Dynamix was closed.

Square of the Final Fantasy serie made many financial loses last year.

etc. etc.

Check out gamasutra news archieves and I am sure you get a headache

So that are the sad facts

For development houses it''s then of course more difficult.
That''s clear.

For a programmers job, perhaps there are possibilities.
In my country there are possibilities. But still not at all companies. I know however that also here, there are a lot of publishers who were bankcrupted. Or there were people fired of some departmants of a publisher.

So it''s difficult and I doubt that it will be soon better.
For doing buisness as a developer or publisher, games isn''t the right place anymore. You can better try something else.
Also selling hardware is difficult. If you check the news.
Perhaps some ideas for developing databases solutions is something, but very boring
Dot com company is also a difficult area. Many of them are going down. Also in my country. So the same problem is with games.

Ten years ago there wasn''t much competition as nowadays.
So that say enough, I am afraid

So, Drizzt, you think the younger developers
shouldn''t be reading about this? Why not?
It''s important information.

I''m 14, and I have decided that I am going to
learn some additional skills so that I have
an alternative if I can''t make it in games.
I just finished a Unix class, and eventually
I will be taking some classes on network
administration, network programming, and probably
database programming, too.

(Of course, that could all still have use in game
programming, too.)

Anyway, I think the game industry can''t stay down
forever. It is unlikely that demand will fall much,
todays kids are sometimes obsessed with video games.
They carry their gameboys around all day asking people
if they trade Pokemon. (My keyboard doesn''t support accents.)
Should we quit developing games? No. However, we should
always have some sort of alternative skill, just in case
game developement isn''t going to be an option. Like all
mature industries, or most, anyway, there are a few
big companies that sit on top, while small upstarts
struggle to compete in their own small region.
(Example: Taco bell across the US, Baker''s Burgers at
a single location.)

When an industry starts, it''s new and many developers
all do there best to compete on a more-or-less even
market. Eventually some will fail and other will succeed.
Failures fade into non-existance while the winners grow
into huge companies who end up controlling the market.
Will it go back? Only if the industry essentially dies
will it ever start over. You complain about games being
hard, but let''s see you try opening your own fast food
resteraunt, you won''t have a change at beating BurgerKing.
If you make an OS, you won''t have a chance against Microsoft.

This sort of situation can be seen in action in Linux;
Many companies make their own distribution. Right now
the market is divided, and many upstart distros can gain
popularity. Watch in a few years as it becomes more like
1 or 2 companies controlling the market; There isn''t enough
income to support all the companies, so many will die,
and the remaining companies will live. Just watch.

So for financial security, your best bet is probably to
have a skill that many companies and markets can use.
A general purpose programmer could write OS code, game code,
office program code, the list goes on. Nearly all modern
companies have a network of some sort, at least for a website.
So learn networking. Can''t go wrong with that

..but if you plan on starting your own game company,
don''t expect great results quickly. Maybe not at all.
It will be like opening your own fast food joint.
You may make money, it may be succesful enough to support
itself, but don''t expect to have Dave Thomas declaring
bankruptcy.