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Programmers/Musicians
Well thats your opinion, I hate heavy metal and indie stuff, but I wouldn''t say they aren''t types of music.
Author
Chris,
I think Rap is music, but that there are no musicians that take part in it in any way. Rap music may have good lyrics, or a nice beat. But none of those jokers are musicians. That doesn''t mean that it is bad though. I own a lot of cds that are just plain crap. Out of those crap cds there is not one musician in the lot. I still like it though. I think my attempt at trying to explain myself on this before was not explained well enough.
Sorry if I offended you.
I think Rap is music, but that there are no musicians that take part in it in any way. Rap music may have good lyrics, or a nice beat. But none of those jokers are musicians. That doesn''t mean that it is bad though. I own a lot of cds that are just plain crap. Out of those crap cds there is not one musician in the lot. I still like it though. I think my attempt at trying to explain myself on this before was not explained well enough.
Sorry if I offended you.
OMG! you guys need to check out something like Handsome Boy Modelling School by Prince Paul. Or how about Turn Tableists. Like QBert, Mix Master Mike, etc... there is no way you can''t call these guys serious musicians.
BTW - I doubt you guys would like it, but its a lot more creative than a violinist that sits there playing Beethoven all day, or a death metal guitarist who''s extent of musical knowledge is the power chord.
BTW - I doubt you guys would like it, but its a lot more creative than a violinist that sits there playing Beethoven all day, or a death metal guitarist who''s extent of musical knowledge is the power chord.
I believe that rap is some sort of beat (one that has been used countless times before) with some guy/girl spewing out words too fast for me to understand, but I can''t really consider that music. I''m not trying to create a "what music is and isn''t" war, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I''m just stating mine. BTW, I play tenor sax.
Martin
Martin
I just wanted to comment on the "What is music, what is not?" debate that''s going on here.
(Serious question here) Do you people interested in dance / rap music really sit down and listen to the music?
I mean beyond going to a club and listening to the rythym while you dance, when you are not driving around cruising in your car with the stereo pumping, do you actually sit down and listen to music? Do you sit down and listen to each note, each beat of every instrument, absorbing the harmonies, melodies, rythyms so completely that you forget about everything around you? Can that type of music really do that to you?
I would think that compared to composing a lengthy piece of orchestral music writing a rap song would take about five minutes. I hope I don''t sound too critical or annoy anyone but dance music generally revolves around the same simple rythym (the one that is common to all of that type the music - BOOMP, BOOMP, BOOMP).
Also, when I talk about music I don''t mean listening to someone explain how they hate their boyfriend so much, or how they have a case of grenades, or a country singer talking about love or something really shallow like that, I mean the lyrics mean nothing to me I LIKE MUSIC - eg. sound that goes way beyond anything words can convey. Lots of really good music (indie / metal included) has really great music but the lyrics are just plain dumb.
BTW, Has anyone out there seen the Metallica video S&M?
Watch the video (especially the clip for ''One'') and then try and tell me that metal musicians aren''t responsible for some of the most interesting musical projects out there?
I would disagree with Potsticker that turn-tablists and the other artists he mentioned are more creative than a violinist that sits and plays Beethoven all day or a death metal guitarist. Those classical players put feeling into their music and I would argue Potsticker that recorded or electronic music is usually put down on tape once and then repeated over and over. There is often no variance given to the same passage on a different occasion. As for the metal guitarists, the attraction for me is watching someone play an intricate piece with so much precision, their sense of time so good that you just sit there stunned as they deliver every note spot on. Speed isn''t everything but there is something to be said for someone who can play fluently, like any good violinist.
I don''t think writing music helps with programming at all and I have waffled enough.
Paulcoz.
(Serious question here) Do you people interested in dance / rap music really sit down and listen to the music?
I mean beyond going to a club and listening to the rythym while you dance, when you are not driving around cruising in your car with the stereo pumping, do you actually sit down and listen to music? Do you sit down and listen to each note, each beat of every instrument, absorbing the harmonies, melodies, rythyms so completely that you forget about everything around you? Can that type of music really do that to you?
I would think that compared to composing a lengthy piece of orchestral music writing a rap song would take about five minutes. I hope I don''t sound too critical or annoy anyone but dance music generally revolves around the same simple rythym (the one that is common to all of that type the music - BOOMP, BOOMP, BOOMP).
Also, when I talk about music I don''t mean listening to someone explain how they hate their boyfriend so much, or how they have a case of grenades, or a country singer talking about love or something really shallow like that, I mean the lyrics mean nothing to me I LIKE MUSIC - eg. sound that goes way beyond anything words can convey. Lots of really good music (indie / metal included) has really great music but the lyrics are just plain dumb.
BTW, Has anyone out there seen the Metallica video S&M?
Watch the video (especially the clip for ''One'') and then try and tell me that metal musicians aren''t responsible for some of the most interesting musical projects out there?
I would disagree with Potsticker that turn-tablists and the other artists he mentioned are more creative than a violinist that sits and plays Beethoven all day or a death metal guitarist. Those classical players put feeling into their music and I would argue Potsticker that recorded or electronic music is usually put down on tape once and then repeated over and over. There is often no variance given to the same passage on a different occasion. As for the metal guitarists, the attraction for me is watching someone play an intricate piece with so much precision, their sense of time so good that you just sit there stunned as they deliver every note spot on. Speed isn''t everything but there is something to be said for someone who can play fluently, like any good violinist.
I don''t think writing music helps with programming at all and I have waffled enough.
Paulcoz.
I officially "raise the roof" for paulcoz.
(Although I am not a Metallica fan, but can ''resprect'')
(Although I am not a Metallica fan, but can ''resprect'')
Well I''ve been playing music for almost as long as I''ve been programming. I play in a band - recording and playing live, I''ve gone to school and studied it, I''ve jammed in a variety of situations including line ups with just me(bass) and a drummer, to playing your standard trio with a guitar, with horns, piano/keyboard, and even TURNTABLISTS - or DJ''s whatever you want to call them, and unlike most people I *listen* to a variety of music.
To list some of my favorite musicians:
Zappa, Charles Mingus, Wendy(Walter) Carlos, Primus, Ween, Beastie Boys, QBert, Don Cabellero, Tortoise, Talking Heads, Zeppelin, Cream, Muddy Waters, Django Reinhardt, Coltrane, Miles, Dr. Octagon, Mudhoney...
Now, tell me there isn''t variety in this list.
Now, try and tell me I don''t *listen* to the music. The reality is, the people who usually make that comment don''t *listen* to it, they just disregard everything from a genre and call it crap. Unlike most of you, I used to listen to Metallica, etc... I got BORED of it. I like music with feeling, but that''s my opinion of feeling.
Most of you have never seen let alone heard a DJ - not that guys that just sit there and mix records, guys who compose whole new songs, out of records. One of my best friends, a drummer who can play in about any time signature you want to imagine, also cuts it. You don''t know what is possible with this ART form.
I''ve seen and heard him take two records, and compose whole new beats, and melodies. I''ve also listened to him take two copies of the same record, and REARRANGE the lyrics to create a whole new song. I''ve seen him take two different records, and do the same thing. This isn''t done through recording, this is live, and it''s created with something that you wouldn''t understand until YOU actually take a moment and listen to it.
To list some of my favorite musicians:
Zappa, Charles Mingus, Wendy(Walter) Carlos, Primus, Ween, Beastie Boys, QBert, Don Cabellero, Tortoise, Talking Heads, Zeppelin, Cream, Muddy Waters, Django Reinhardt, Coltrane, Miles, Dr. Octagon, Mudhoney...
Now, tell me there isn''t variety in this list.
Now, try and tell me I don''t *listen* to the music. The reality is, the people who usually make that comment don''t *listen* to it, they just disregard everything from a genre and call it crap. Unlike most of you, I used to listen to Metallica, etc... I got BORED of it. I like music with feeling, but that''s my opinion of feeling.
Most of you have never seen let alone heard a DJ - not that guys that just sit there and mix records, guys who compose whole new songs, out of records. One of my best friends, a drummer who can play in about any time signature you want to imagine, also cuts it. You don''t know what is possible with this ART form.
I''ve seen and heard him take two records, and compose whole new beats, and melodies. I''ve also listened to him take two copies of the same record, and REARRANGE the lyrics to create a whole new song. I''ve seen him take two different records, and do the same thing. This isn''t done through recording, this is live, and it''s created with something that you wouldn''t understand until YOU actually take a moment and listen to it.
Potsticker,
I didn't say you don't like a wide range of music, I was just asking whether there was really that much to rap/dance music beneath the surface, things you can discover long after the first hundred listens. You obviously think there is.
We agree on something because I got bored with Metallica too. It is only their last project S&M (playing with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra for those who aren't aware) that renewed my interest. They took a lot of criticism from their fans when they evolved from metal into something else and now they are the only band of their genre who aren't stagnant eg. recycling the same sound over and over. Perhaps the rest of their career will be mediocre, who knows?
If it is a failing in me I can't help comparing new groups to what has been before. Surely noone in their right mind will argue that the latest Shania Twain record can compete with some work like Pink Floyd's The Wall. Oh, and I can't identify with synthesizers - just look at what that dance band did to Adagio with Strings recently (that's the music that played during Platoon). They killed that music, took every bit of life out of it and made it sound so cheesy and cheap. As for turn-tables, perhaps I should ask this:
You can switch on a record with great guitarists like Jimmy Page or Frank Zappa and recognise them instantly, but can you really say the same for a turn-tablist. Is there that much room for individuality there?
I am interested in your thoughts,
Paulcoz.
Edited by - paulcoz on 3/14/00 5:50:09 PM
I didn't say you don't like a wide range of music, I was just asking whether there was really that much to rap/dance music beneath the surface, things you can discover long after the first hundred listens. You obviously think there is.
We agree on something because I got bored with Metallica too. It is only their last project S&M (playing with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra for those who aren't aware) that renewed my interest. They took a lot of criticism from their fans when they evolved from metal into something else and now they are the only band of their genre who aren't stagnant eg. recycling the same sound over and over. Perhaps the rest of their career will be mediocre, who knows?
If it is a failing in me I can't help comparing new groups to what has been before. Surely noone in their right mind will argue that the latest Shania Twain record can compete with some work like Pink Floyd's The Wall. Oh, and I can't identify with synthesizers - just look at what that dance band did to Adagio with Strings recently (that's the music that played during Platoon). They killed that music, took every bit of life out of it and made it sound so cheesy and cheap. As for turn-tables, perhaps I should ask this:
You can switch on a record with great guitarists like Jimmy Page or Frank Zappa and recognise them instantly, but can you really say the same for a turn-tablist. Is there that much room for individuality there?
I am interested in your thoughts,
Paulcoz.
Edited by - paulcoz on 3/14/00 5:50:09 PM
Oh definitely - there is as much room for creativity and expression in this realm as any other. Really, turntablism is a new art form. The longest you could suggest its been around is about 25 years, but more realistically, its really only been around for the past 15 or so in its current incarnation. Compare that to most art forms.
Now, I realize music is such a hard thing for people to open their minds to. I''m no different, currently having a serious hatred of techno and pop music. But I can say, that except for where it is blatant commercial exploitation, I''m sure there is art going on at some level.
The hardest part about getting exposed to a new style of music is you usually need someone that already likes it, and they show you the good stuff.
I can recommend two albums, and if you look around, you should be able to find samples of them.
Wave Twisters by DJ QBert
Anti-Theft Device by Mix Master Mike
You could check out the following link as well. Navigate to the video section, and check out the video Sneak Attack. All I can say, is its made with records, well except for the video
http://www.skratchpiklz.com/
You can also look up some links about turntablism on Yahoo.
I should also point out that these aren''t the only turntablists out there either, and I''m not the most informed about the art form. There is a whole community built on it, and there are many amazing Dj''s out there pushing the envelope like Craze, Wax, Psychophonographdisc, and many others.
Oh, and all I meant by listing a variety of music is too show, that if we can relate together that a few of these things have depth, than it is quite possible that the other ones do as well. Does that make sense?
Now, I realize music is such a hard thing for people to open their minds to. I''m no different, currently having a serious hatred of techno and pop music. But I can say, that except for where it is blatant commercial exploitation, I''m sure there is art going on at some level.
The hardest part about getting exposed to a new style of music is you usually need someone that already likes it, and they show you the good stuff.
I can recommend two albums, and if you look around, you should be able to find samples of them.
Wave Twisters by DJ QBert
Anti-Theft Device by Mix Master Mike
You could check out the following link as well. Navigate to the video section, and check out the video Sneak Attack. All I can say, is its made with records, well except for the video
http://www.skratchpiklz.com/
You can also look up some links about turntablism on Yahoo.
I should also point out that these aren''t the only turntablists out there either, and I''m not the most informed about the art form. There is a whole community built on it, and there are many amazing Dj''s out there pushing the envelope like Craze, Wax, Psychophonographdisc, and many others.
Oh, and all I meant by listing a variety of music is too show, that if we can relate together that a few of these things have depth, than it is quite possible that the other ones do as well. Does that make sense?
Ska is the best music 
I also like foreign music (French in particular - anyone listen to Louise Attaque?). I find I appreciate the music more because I dont know what they are saying.
Dont knock rap either...its hard, I can barely keep of with ska bands.
Rat
I also like foreign music (French in particular - anyone listen to Louise Attaque?). I find I appreciate the music more because I dont know what they are saying.
Dont knock rap either...its hard, I can barely keep of with ska bands.
Rat
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