Ape, you''re not the first. Arrogantgod just mentioned that programming was an art.

And I think we all know that Mr. Cup doesn''t believe that anyone can be a programmer. It that were true, he could do his own programming instead of dealing with the programmers he hates so much.

I do my own art and programming. I rarely ever argue with myself about game design.

E:cb woof!

Mr Cup,

Your statement that anybody can learn to program is very true. Anyone can LEARN to do art work too. The difference is becoming a programmer, and becoming an artist.

If you really believe what you said, then you could go ahead and learn to program and be a one man company then.

I am a programmer and I can''t draw anything but flies. I believe that being an artist is a talent that you are born with and hone. Same as music.

My son could draw, and draw good from four years old and is now twenty-one, and a dang good artist. I tried to teach him to program but he never had the patience but could draw for hours.

What it''s worth, Larry.

I think Art can be just about anything. Music is certainly a form of art, and so is programmming. Its a talent. To be a great programmer, you must have that "talent". Just like artist who draw, or play/write music. I program and also play the piano, and I consider both a form of art.

On the note of, anyone can be a programmer. Sure, you can teach almost anyone Visual Basic, but can you teach them EVERYTHING about it, and teach them how to correct problems, when one may arise, that isn''t expected. Than move them onto C++ or another language, and repeat that feat? No. Just like you can''t teach everyone who draws stick firgures, to draw a great landscape peices of art. You have to have that special interest in it, and dedication and love for it.

But also for the record: Programmers can be testy sometimes, and push someones paitence. I know I have! But what do you expect? We sit at computers all day!


"Art may imiate life, but life imitates TV."

YEAY, There''s a party in my thred and everyone''s invitded :-)

He he he, I didn''t think that many people still read the game are section any more. You sure don''t post. Actually programers dont tick me off, they do all the stuff I dont want to do to bring my characters to life.

Thank you programers.

Now every body limbo how slow cand you code, how slow can you code... :-)

(pay no attention to the man behinf the Sof ID, he has too much hair to be taken seriously)

As Mr Cup always says,
''I pretend to work. They pretend to pay me.''

IM starting to think that none of you can get along. Here''s the problem. We stereo type far too much and as a result all team members are at each others throat all the time. Allow me to rephrase some of what I said. Programming is a language like any other but your right, it takes certain talents to be able to do it well. You have be a creative problem solver to be able to use the language efficiently. Its really like learning french or somthing similar. You are given a list of available words and you arrange them to form sentances and paragraphs. The same goes for programming as you are creating logical commands that do somthing. Personally I do not think that any game starts in the programming stage. that would be foolish as the game would have very little point.
Art on the other hand is also a form of language. You are taught certain skills that allow your hands, your eyes and your mind to operate as one to create art. You still have to have the talent to use those skills effectivly. What im trying to get at here is that if you go to school for years to be a cgi artist and you cant draw, your pretty much setting yourself up for a huge fall. Art itself should not be looked upon as the technical accuracy of the drawing but more the feeling or intent of the image. I read a very useful piece of writing in 3d artist today that mentioned that CGI people should not start their careers with CGI but more so film-makeing. I agree with this because if you have no filmaking background how are you supposed to know how certain lighting will effect the scene? I have found so far that most instructors that I have met have very little knowllege about film . They basically know what is written in a book somewhere but thats it.
Im going off track now...damnit
IN any event, to prevent the little assumtion going around that im a nice little asshole, I will finish in saying; You should not assume that it is easy to jump into any one role. It takes talent as well as an equal amount of training and skill to do anything. You also need a team that works well together and is organized. Orgaization is of utmost importance or the project will fall apart. Final Fantasy 9 had over 300 people working on it and it took a year and a half to do, without the co-operation of all those people the game would not have been compleated.
People need to stop assuming things or else your whole ambition of being the next big game designer will crumble faster than anything.

Just a thought. I dont expect anyone to listen to me. I gave up on that a long time ago

Why does my life have to be so hard in every world?

well said, Fantasy Edge.

this thread is just turning into an Ion Storm, ain''t it.

a2k

A programmers program is his/her art
An artists pixelated composition is his/her art

It is two different feilds that you can ''learn'' to do, but you cannot create the art. The art is what is only attainable to those who know it well and are truly motivated by their artistic expression. I like to think of a game as an artform, it is a composition of different artforms that comes together to create a masterpeice if done correctly...

do we really need to argue on this?

And who says a programmer is the first to bail out? My artist never contacted me after my project started, and I am STILL going... I don''t need that kind of attitude from either ARTIST OR PROGRAMMER. That attitude has no place in the industry... People need to see that it comes from both sides, no side is perfect, we are all human (except me, I am a dwarf ).

*Dwarfsoft gets ready to hose himself down*

-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)

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